Alex Schwartz: This is Critics at Large, a podcast from The New Yorker. I'm Alex Schwartz. I'm Nomi Fry. Vinson Cunningham: And I'm Vinson Cunningham. Each week on this show, we make sense of what's happening in the culture right now and how we got here. How you guys doing? Naomi Fry: Doing Alex Schwartz: great. Naomi Fry: Doing well. Vinson Cunningham: Yeah. The, the snap is back in the air. Naomi Fry: Oh, is it ever. Vinson Cunningham: Autumn, here we are. October, speaking of autumn, is shaping up to be movie month on Critics at Large. There are so many exciting releases coming up, so we decided to make a thing of it. For each of the next couple of weeks, it's all movies, all the time, on Critics at Large. Now, last week, our episode was on the bark-tastic- uh, Brad Pitt and a dog vehicle, Heart of the Beast. Woof. But we've got we've got episodes coming down the line on Aaron Sorkin's new Facebook movie, The Social Reckoning, and on You Can See Everything, the new documentary about Elizabeth Holmes, directed by Nathan Fielder. Woof. But today... Woof, another, that's two woofs. Uh, and today, though, we're talking about Digger, a new film directed by Alejandro Iñárritu about an oil tycoon who accidentally causes a global disaster. CLIP: Digger trailer Vinson Cunningham: The movie is really many things, which we'll get into, but it's also a great occasion to look closely at its star, the great Tom Cruise. We all got excited about the idea of spending a whole episode on the Cruise-ter himself. Can we talk a little bit about why? What is it about Tom Cruise that's just so, exerted such a pull on us? What, what, what's it all about? Naomi Fry: There's no one like him, really. I mean, he's been for the past, over 40 years now, he's just been with us every step of the way as- Yeah ... the quintessential movie star. Vinson Cunningham: Yeah, the movie Naomi Fry: star-ness. Vinson Cunningham: Basically ... the, the sort of- Naomi Fry: Yeah last of a dying breed. Never TV, never nothing. You know, movies. Yeah. Cruise is movies. Cruise is American cinema. Vinson Cunningham: That's true. Alex Schwartz: Yeah, we've been talking about other stars, like last week we talked about Brad Pitt, Leonardo DiCaprio comes to mind in this category, but there is some sense I think that we have as a culture that Tom Cruise is the last movie star. Mm-hmm. And I do think it has to do with this combo of prestige roles, especially comic roles, but also dramatic roles he had early in his career, and then this transition to full bore action hero. Vinson Cunningham: Stunts. Alex Schwartz: Age defying. Vinson Cunningham: Mm-hmm. Alex Schwartz: Death defying, gravity defying. The stunts, the nonstop stunts, the Mission Impossibles that just keep on coming, and then there's also all his weird personal stuff. There's the couch jumping, Scientology of it all. Vinson Cunningham: So much, yeah. And s- sort of post-pandemic, he also just became the comeback, get your butt in the seats guy. Yeah. Which, you know, th- there was a place for it. Alex Schwartz: Yeah. Vinson Cunningham: So today's episode is devoted to all things Tom Cruise, his greatest hits, the stunts, his singular status as a figure in the culture, and why, despite, you know, m- you could call them missteps, uh, eccentricities that would jeopardize the careers of a different kind of celebrity, he has remained absolutely irresistible, maybe even indispensable to us. And as a total treat we're gonna be joined today by a surprise guest, a New Yorker colleague who's the in-house expert, that's right, we have one of those, on all things Tom Cruise. So that's today on Critics at Large. Cruise-a-palooza. Alex Schwartz: Love it. That's great. Vinson Cunningham: I don't know, uh- Alex Schwartz: Yes ... Vinson Cunningham: I just said that. Alex Schwartz: We're done. We're done. We got it. We got it in one. ________________ Vinson Cunningham: Okay, so when we landed on this topic, we knew that there was one person on the New Yorker staff who we just had to hear from and have as our guest. It's Tyler Foggett. She's a senior editor, she is a host of the Political Scene podcast, and she's our buddy. So without further ado, let's get Tyler in here. Alex Schwartz: It's Tyler. Tyler Foggatt: Hey, guys. Hello. Hi, Tyler. Thanks for having me. I'm truly honored. Now, usually I do a politics podcast, as Vinson said, and I feel like for that I have to do a ton of research just to make sure that I know, like, what in the world is happening with the Iran war or with tariffs, and with this I really do feel like I know a lot about Tom Cruise and I'm, I'm ready to rock. Pre- pre-prepped, yeah. No research necessary. Amazing. I was born ready. Vinson Cunningham: There you are. So you are, uh, true to form, the office's foremost Tom Cruise fan, Cruister, however, I don't know what- ... your guys' name is. Tyler Foggatt: Cruiseheads. Vinson Cunningham: The Cruiseheads. Uh, and you wrote a great piece about him last year for the magazine called Why Tom Cruise Will Never Die, which we will talk about. Can I ask you a question? What is the first Tom Cruise movie you, Tyler Foggett, ever saw? Tyler Foggatt: So the first Tom Cruise movie that I ever saw was also the first movie I had ever seen- Uh-huh ... which was the first Mission Impossible film, which came out in 1996. I was a baby. I was brought to the theater. I apparently started crying during, like, a really climactic scene, and so I was taken out by my mom. Um, but that was the first movie I ever saw, and unfortunately I don't remember that experience. But the first Tom Cruise movie that I remember watching and really engaging with was actually the second Mission Impossible film, which, um, it's not a good movie, but I remember watching it with my dad when I was really young. It came out in 2000, so I was probably about five, and- Tom Cruise was kind of like my Santa Claus. Like- ... I remember watching this movie, and it opens with this crazy rock climbing scene that Cruise does, and I remember my dad telling me over and over again, you know, "Tom Cruise actually did this," like, "He did this for the movie." And when I was young, I believed him because you believe what your parents are telling you when you're a kid. And then as I got a little bit older and a little bit savvier and I learned about things like CGI and union rules, I kinda came to the- ... um, you know, personal conclusion that there was no way that Tom Cruise was actually doing the stunts in these Mission Impossible movies. And then as I got even older and we started getting things like behind-the-scenes YouTube videos- Yeah ... and director's commentary, I realized that actually Santa Claus was real. Um, that he was in fact doing these insane things for our entertainment pleasure. And from that moment on, I was hooked, Alex Schwartz: Tyler, you come from a Cruise-head family, as I understand it. Is it not true that your name was almost Cruise? Tyler Foggatt: I was almost named Cruise. Yeah, my dad was choosing between Cruise and Atticus, like Atticus Finch. Mm-hmm. Um, and then he eventually went with Tyler, which is the name of the, um, love interest in the Keanu Reeves, Patrick Swayze movie, Point Break. Wow. Wow. Wow. I should also mention my middle name is Scully, after Dana Scully from The X-Files, so I am like a- You're kidding me ... I'm like a walking pop culture reference. Oh, my God. Vinson Cunningham: Nothing but American heroes were on that list. Exactly. He was like, "What? Like, let me just carve out a Mount Rushmore of possible names." You were, you were born to sit in this seat. Naomi Fry: I know. That's crazy. Vinson Cunningham: Okay, so given this sort of, this is really just like I- Lineage. Naomi Fry: Yes. Vinson Cunningham: Legacy. Naomi Fry: This Alex Schwartz: august lineage. Vinson Cunningham: This origin story, um- There are very many chapters of, uh, sort of the life of Tom Cruise on screen, and luckily for us, you have a kind of overarching organizing theory- some sort of schema that we could, we can p- perhaps use. Could you talk us through the different, maybe we'll call them buckets of Tom Cruise movies? Tyler Foggatt: Yeah, I, I'd be, um, delighted to. So I, I generally separate Cruise's filmography into three or four buckets, as you said. Um, and these buckets are thematic, but they also are more or less chronological, which is useful 'cause it helps us really visualize his career arc. So the first bucket would be the early heartthrob years, which is when Cruise really established himself as a kind of sex symbol. Mm-hmm. Funnily enough, I was, um, I was watching a Tom Cruise movie over the weekend, Days of Thunder, actually, and- Right ... I was looking at the, like, IMDb summary that they have on Prime Video, and there's this really weird line that's like, "He established himself as a beloved actor to female and male audiences alike," which, like, really kind of stood out as, like, part of an IMDb summary. But I do think it speaks to- Hmm ... something, which is that, like, women watched him and they were like, "This is the most attractive guy I've ever seen." And then guys like my dad watched him, and they were like, "I wanna be this dude," which is why you had- Hmm ... like, Top Gun encouraging all these guys to join the Navy, and, um, the Ray-Ban Aviators that Cruise wears in Risky Business, those, like, sold out- Yeah um, after he wore those. So like these- The Wayfarers. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Um, so these early heartthrob years, I would say it's, like, Risky Business, All the Right Moves, Top Gun, The Color of Money, Days of Thunder, Cocktail. And, like, a lot of these movies kind of follow the same formula, so it's, like, a character who's, like, kind of a hothead essentially- Mm-hmm but who's also, like, super charismatic, so you find yourself rooting for him, who has a mentor who's usually played by, like, Paul Newman or Tom Skerritt or someone, and then Tom Cruise- A hottie Vinson Cunningham: of yore. Tyler Foggatt: Exactly. Mm-hmm. And then you have Tom Cruise setting out to master a difficult craft- Mm-hmm ... whether it be, like, race car driving or bartending or pool hustling. Alex Schwartz: Uh-huh. Tyler Foggatt: Or like, or brothel owning. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Which is, yeah, Risky Business. He does, um- All important skills ... he becomes an incredible capitalist by the end of that film. Uh-huh. Um, so those are, like, the early heartthrob years. And then there's a second bucket, which is just, like- Truly incredible movies where I think you watch them and you c- at least in my case, I watch them and I'm like, "These movies are proof that Cruise is an Oscar caliber actor even if he hasn't won an Oscar famously." Yeah. And so these would be Born on the Fourth of July, where he plays a paralyzed Vietnam War vet. You have Rain Man, A Few Good Men, Jerry Maguire, my personal favorite, Magnolia, Collateral, Eyes Wide Shut. Like, these are just straight up- Vinson Cunningham: Sick ass movies ... Tyler Foggatt: good movies. Mm-hmm. Um, and then the third bucket is, like, the action stuff that we all associate Cruise with now. So these would be of course, like, the Mission Impossible movies, the Jack Reacher films, Edge of Tomorrow, which is, like, a really good sci-fi action movie with Emily Blunt that I think the entire culture really sleeps on. And then of course Top Gun Maverick. Yes. Um, and then there's, like, a secret fourth bucket- um, that I try not to think about that often, but I've been forced to think about a little bit because we saw Digger last night. Um, but this is a bucket that contains, like, weird movies that I can barely even believe that Tom Cruise was in. And so this would be, like, Interview with the Vampire, although he's actually quite good in that film. Um, Tropic Thunder. Mm-hmm. Vanilla Sky. That's the fourth bucket. So Alex Schwartz: maybe we call them the risks. Vinson Cunningham: The risks. Risky business. Big swing, Naomi Fry: big Alex Schwartz: reward? Naomi Fry: Question Alex Schwartz: mark. Question mark. Tyler Foggatt: Exactly. Vinson Cunningham: Okay. So do you guys have favorites from the first bucket, early Cruise? Alex Schwartz: Risky Business. Very strange movie. Naomi Fry: Yeah. Alex Schwartz: It's not all undies dancing with- No ... Ray-Bans. It gets dark fast. Naomi Fry: I know. It's like, it's like a tortured older sex worker and the young buck who- A Alex Schwartz: Princeton student, if I remember? Tyler Foggatt: He's trying to get into Princeton. Alex Schwartz: Okay. Yes. Naomi Fry: Not even. He's a high s- Not even ... he's a high school- He's Alex Schwartz: a Naomi Fry: high Alex Schwartz: school- Okay. Right, right, right. He's a pers- he's a Vinson Cunningham: prospective. Naomi Fry: The parents are away. The parents are away. Yes. He decides to make some money by turning, uh, his parents' house into a brothel. Alex Schwartz: There's kind of a s- there's kind of a progression. Like, first he's excited because he thinks he can sleep with a prostitute 'cause his parents are away- Mm-hmm ... as, you know, many a 17-year-old might think. And then- I guess, you know. I, I Tyler Foggatt: certainly did. Alex Schwartz: And then he's a- It's literally the first thing he does. Yeah. And then he- It's liter- yeah. There is a do not pass go- He's like, "Finally." immediately sex work. Let's, let's get it. CLIP: Risky Business he's very surprised by how much he's being charged, because he's not a worldly 17-year-old. He's a bit of a cloistered one, let's say. Then he crashes a Porsche, and then he needs to make money and decides to be a pimp. Yeah. I think that's the- It's a classic- You nailed it. It's, it's a classic- Entrepreneurial- Yeah ... '80s young gay. It's a classic coming of age pimp story. Naomi Fry: Yes. Alex Schwartz: In the white suburbs. Naomi Fry: In the white suburbs, exactly. Alex Schwartz: Yeah. Naomi Fry: But then there is, it's, it is a little, there is this tortured love story- Yes ... between himself and the older prostitute- Mm-hmm ... Rebecca De Mornay. Mm-hmm. Cruise, young Cruise, is able to show some dramatic chops in, in that guise. It's not just the, the tighty whities. Tyler Foggatt: Exactly. He did improvise that dance scene for the most part, which is like- Naomi Fry: Did he really? ... Tyler Foggatt: which is pretty impressive- Naomi Fry: Mm ... Tyler Foggatt: and I think kinda speaks to, like, this whole thing that we've seen lately, which is that it's hard to kind of distinguish Cruise as an actor from the characters he plays, because they're often so, um, you know, kinda charismatic and a- at least now they're almost always, like, these good guy heroes. Mm-hmm. But I think even then he was really inserting his own personality into the roles, which is part of the reason why he's so magnetic to watch. Naomi Fry: Yeah. I think one of the things that distinguishes Cruise's performances in this early era of his career is a kind of charismatic cockiness, right? Yeah. When I think about, which we can definitely see in Risky Business, and we can also see in the great movie The Color of Money, which I recently re-watched on a plane, a 1986 Martin "Marty" Scorsese. It is a sequel to the 1961 Paul Newman movie The Hustler. Newman plays a, a kind of, like, grizzled pool hustler who has left the pool halls behind, but is brought back, dragged back into the pool halls when he meets this young- upstart, this young hustler who is played by Tom Cruise, Vincent, Vince and, uh, he decides to mentor him. CLIP: The Color of Money When I think of Cruise in that time, not just in that movie, it's also in Cocktail, it's in Risky Business, you know, I think of this kind of like energetically full to bursting with a kind of like m- young masculine cockiness of like, "Don't tell me what to do," you know? Mm-hmm. But somehow that asshole-ism is leavened by an attractiveness, you know, a, a charisma, moments of being chastened. And, uh, he is a really good actor in these movies Vinson Cunningham: And it's interesting to think of, you know, this motif of like, um, yeah, hothead, but who is like on some level apprenticed in some way. Yeah. Like you said about, um, you know, Cocktail's all about a guy who like learns how to do flair bartending- ... and then wants to own a, like, you know- Mm ... set up his own bar and restaurant. It's really just about being a member of a guild in a certain way. Naomi Fry: Mm. Vinson Cunningham: It's interesting to think about the later Cruise in relationship to the kind of that motif. Cruise, who has talked a lot about his father being a horrible person. Naomi Fry: Mm-hmm. Vinson Cunningham: A, a merchant of chaos, I believe he has called his father. Um, He was kicked off the football team because he, he had a beer before a game and was... So he's like the, the kind of a troubled kid, and he does seem on a certain level to have been like saved by his apprenticeship to the movies in the period that we're talking about. He like really learns the nature of spectacle, really learns how he can be a part of it, and it does seem that there's like a kind of partially or like at least allegorically biographical edge to like, to this section of the career. Um, okay, let's go into the second ca- category, and maybe this is where we can just talk about our favorite Cruise, like just acting performances. As we said, he's just great at acting. Um, movies where he's just really great. [a][b][c]Jerry Maguire. This is, this... There, there's a whole category. What, what do you like from this period? Alex Schwartz: I love Jerry Maguire, like Tyler. Tyler's nodding enthusiastically. My head's Tyler Foggatt: gonna fall off because of how hard I'm nodding. Alex Schwartz: Cameron Crowe, 1996. First rated R movie I ever saw. Tyler Foggatt: Really? Alex Schwartz: Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is one of those movies... This is a movie they don't make today, I'm gonna go ahead and say. It's like it has all the... It's comedic. It has the slick, funny, capitalist element. Of course, Tom Cruise plays a sports agent, a successful sports agent who leaves his agency CLIP: Jerry Maguire and makes his dramatic speech making a play for others to leave with him. Only Renée Zellweger and the Goldfish come with him. CLIP: Jerry Maguire To me, one thing I like about it a lot is that, you know, Nomi, you were talking about this, um, hot-headed quality, like lightning in a bottle quality- Mm-hmm ... that Tom Cruise has. Mm-hmm. And it's also in this phase of his career. I feel like what happens in, in, um, Jerry Maguire is you get these amazing explosive moments like the leaving the agency scene, but you also get cheesy stuff that really might not work with a different actor. "You complete me," as he says to Renée Zellweger, CLIP: Jerry Maguire and I was reading that Cameron Crowe said, like, this seemed like there was no way that anyone could pull this off, like it's just too corny, and then Tom Cruise does it. And I think it's that, like, volatile quality compressed and maybe calmed that makes this a really appealing movie. What do you love about it, Tyler? Tyler Foggatt: Yeah, no, I think that's exactly right, just the fact that there are so many things in that movie that shouldn't work, like the you complete me line was going to get eliminated from the script because it felt like it was too sappy and- Mm-hmm ... over the top, but then Cruise delivered it so perfectly that everyone on set was crying, and they were like- obviously this is the emotional climax of the film and it needs to be in there. It's, like, that kind of intense, almost unhinged energy that we see in all of his films and especially some of the later ones. And Collateral is one that comes to mind as one where he's just, like, kind of out of his mind. Um, but it's channeled toward this, like, really kind of lovely and unexpected romantic comedy. I mean, I just think it's kind of, like, a perfect movie. Um, and like you said, it's not the kind of movie that we see today. I al- I also think that one thing that, um... It's like even though people will often admit that Cruise is a good dramatic actor, I think that we forget how good of a comedian he is. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And there are so many, like, funny things he does in that movie where he's, you know, fighting with Cuba Gooding Jr., and Cruise gets so frustrated that he's, like, punching the air. but it's really his sense of humor that, like, comes out in Jerry Maguire in a way that it doesn't in something like Born on the Fourth of July, even though I think that that's probably, like, his best actual, like, dramatic acting performance. Naomi Fry: Before we finish, uh, discussing this bucket, I just really wanna mention Magnolia. Oh, yes. Yes. And Cruise's performance in PT Anderson's movie Maybe the best of the bucket possibly. He plays Frank TJ Mackey, men's rights activist, guru. Uh, I've, I believe we've spoken about it before in, on this pod. You know, respect the cock, talk about cocky. Yeah. Alex Schwartz: Tame, tame- Yeah ... yeah, but his, his- Yeah ... very first speech, I mean, it's, Magnolia's a very interesting movie, and this role I think is so, um, prescient about where the culture was going. Mm-hmm. But he is up on a stage in front of this big men's audience- CLIP: Magnolia Naomi Fry: And we should note that all of these movies that we've mentioned, you know, I mean, he is, was savvy enough and also good enough to work with, you know, extremely respected directors. Mm-hmm. You know? Someone like PT Anderson, for instance, or Oliver Stone, you know? Or, uh, it's, it's, it's, these are- Alex Schwartz: Or Kubrick Naomi Fry: or Kubrick, uh, yeah, with Eyes Wide Shut. Yes. These are, you know, auteurs of, of, of the first order. Vinson Cunningham: Mm-hmm. And I mean, th- this might, uh, Tyler, and you tell me, is this part of your theory? Like, he's working with all these great directors in, in the sort of mid-period here, doing work that we would associate with sort of prestige, the Oscars, et cetera. Of course, he never wins an Oscar. Um, is that part of your theory of, of why Cruise moves from bucket two to bucket three, starts to be Mr. Action because, "Okay, I've done all these great films, but I haven't necessarily been recognized in the way that I would like to be"? Tyler Foggatt: Yeah, I think he had a couple of close calls at the Oscars. So he was nominated for Born on the Fourth of July, Jerry Maguire, and Magnolia, and he won Golden Globes for all of those roles, but he lost at the Oscars. And, um, there was this movie in 2008, Valkyrie, which I don't know if any of you have had the the pleasure of watching. But that was- I have not a Valkyrie fan that was kind of widely seen as, like, Cruise's, um... It was supposed to be his big one. Like, I think that that was the one that, where there was, like, a very big Oscars push, and- Mm-hmm ... the entire thing is, it's a biopic of, um, the guy who tried and failed to kill Hitler. CLIP: Valkyrie It seemed like Cruise was kind of putting all of his eggs in the Valkyrie basket. Mm-hmm. And then he wasn't even nominated. Right. And part of this could be that, like, the movie at the end of the day isn't that good, even though Cruise's performance was pretty great. And so I think, like, it was after he wasn't nominated for Valkyrie that he started to lean in pretty heavily to the action stuff, and it's… There... It's worth noting that, um, on the set of Valkyrie, that's where he met Christopher McQuarrie. He's the guy who directs, like, all of the Mission Impossible movies. Mm-hmm. Um, basically he became Cruise's main action collaborator after Valkyrie, and so I think it was, like, this one-two punch of, like- Okay, it doesn't seem like the Academy's ever going to recognize me. I've also met this guy who was kind of like my creative soulmate, who's willing to, like, really lean into this extreme stunt-driven movie that is- Mm-hmm ... uncommon in Hollywood these days. And so I think it was, like, that combo that- Mm-hmm ... d- made Cruise decide, like, "I'm just gonna go all in on bucket three." Also, a lot of the Scientology stuff was bubbling up at around this time. Yeah. And he had kind of become more ... kind of like persona non grata. Alex Schwartz: Yeah, I think the Scientology is pretty major here, and intersects with his career here. Like, Magnolia's 1999. We're leaping ahead to 2005, Steven Spielberg's adaptation of H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds, and at this point, we know that a Scientology tent is being brought to the set of this movie, and it's just there in case anybody wants to take advantage of it. Like, this is how Cruise is fra- Because this starts to become a big thing in the press. Mm-hmm. People are going up to Steven Spielberg and saying, "Why is What's the deal with the Scientology tent?" He's like, "Oh, I think that Tom just wanted it to be available. the two-month whirlwind romance with Katie Holmes, the Oprah couch jump, the unhinged quality we keep talking about that gets funneled, let's say, into these intense, fascinating, charismatic characters is unleashed on the character of Tom Cruise, and the character of Tom Cruise starts to eclipse the characters he's playing, and people are freaked out. Naomi Fry: Don't forget You're Being Glib, Matt. Alex Schwartz: You're Being Glib, Matt, the Matt Lauer interview- The Matt Lauer interview ... of course, also around this time, also around the War of the Worlds press tour. CLIP: Matt Lauer ivu He goes all in, saying psychiatry is a pseudoscience. It's a sham. CLIP: Matt Lauer ivu Spielberg g- gets freaked out that this is eclipsing The War of the Worlds. The War of the Worlds, by the way, makes boatloads of money, so much money. Yeah. But Mission Impossible III tanks. Not so Tyler Foggatt: much. Alex Schwartz: So you have Tom Cruise now, I think, seen as a liability. Tyler Foggatt: Yeah. Alex Schwartz: And he now is ... His personal life has flashed out. I think he, I think he had to find a role to disappear back into so that Ethan Hunt of Mission Impossible could take the foreground again, and Tom Cruise could slip away again a little bit because we're dealing with a zealot. Mm. He's a Scientology zealot. Vinson Cunningham: Mm-hmm. Sure, yeah. Tyler Foggatt: I think you're right, Alex, that Ethan Hunt was a useful character for Cruise to kind of, um, embrace following all of these Scientology scandals. But at the same time, it's like he didn't exactly disappear into that character. It's more like that character became his sort of outward-facing persona too. Yes, good point. Like, this kind of, like, good guy, hero, savior who's, like, constantly saving the world, and, like, is just, like, the best guy you could possibly imagine. And so I do think it was useful for Cruise reputationally to inhabit that character and become synonymous with it Alex Schwartz: So does the Scientology affect your super fandom of Cruise? Do you put it to the side? Do you just say... I mean, how, yeah, how does it interact with the fandom? Tyler Foggatt: I mean, I thought about this a lot when I was working on my piece, um, sort of how much to do with the Scientology. Um, I do think that Cruise occupies this, like, very strange s- space where it's like, for the most part, we all know that he's a Scientologist. and yet we still watch his films, and we like them, and often the Scientology is just a parenthetical, and it's really hard to think of another celebrity, like, for whom that is the case, where it's just such a side thing. Um, I think what, at least when I was writing the piece, what I tried to do was, like, less nail down, you know, to what extent, um, Cruise is still super involved with the Church of Scientology or how good of a guy he is or how bad of a guy he is, and think about it more in terms of, like, how the fact that he is a Scientologist, like, actually makes its way into the movies. And the thing that I kept pulling on was just this idea of, like, Cruise constantly plays these characters who are saving the world. Um- Mm-hmm. There's been reporting that in Scientology there's this thing called a touch assist- Hmm ... um, which, um, basically you can speed up healing or relieve someone of their pain by touching parts of their body, um, with one finger, and there's this, like, leaked interview where Cruise is talking about how, like, when he is driving down the side of a highway and he sees that there's a car crash, he knows as a Scientologist that he alone has the ability to save that person. And so I was thinking about it less in terms of, like, the Scientology being a, you know, a, a controversy that he has to get past, and more like what are, what's going on with him and his kind of, like, personal desires that then drive him to inhabit a character who actually is able to save people, like, at an incredible clip. Um, and you can, um, extrapolate that all the way out to him being pretty proud of the fact that he maybe saved the entire movie business with Top Gun: Maverick. Hmm. Like, I think that he really likes being the savior. Naomi Fry: Yeah. Vinson Cunningham: He did give the movies a touch assist, that is true. He did. As we've discussed, Tom Cruise has reinvented himself many times over, most recently in the new film Digger. We'll talk about that in a minute on Critics at Large from the New Yorker :: MIDROLL:: Let's turn now to the Tom Cruise of the present. Digger is his new movie. It's in theaters right now. It's directed by Alejandro G. Iñárritu. It stars Tom Cruise as Digger Rockwell, a wealthy oil tycoon Which I just, the name is great. Um, what did you guys think? We were all at the same screening last night, I should say. We all saw it just last night. Naomi Fry: We did. Guys, I'm gonna shock you. I didn't hate it. Wow. Alex Schwartz: Me either. No. I knew Vinson would like it. What? I knew he would like it. I saw him right in the front, and I knew. Vinson Cunningham: Yeah, I loved it. Naomi Fry: I didn't- Ah. I didn't... Okay, so I didn't love it. I do think it's shocking because as you know, I'm the resident hater. Um- Alex Schwartz: But are you, though, at this point? Naomi Fry: I, and look- Alex Schwartz: You're liking a little too much for my taste. Naomi Fry: Okay, okay, I'm sorry. Yeah, maybe, maybe this is a conversion narrative, what's happening Alex Schwartz: here. Naomi Fry: I don't know what it is. The Alex Schwartz: hater Naomi Fry: became the lover. I, I thought, you know what? This is a big movie, and I do like when a big movie is odd and weird. Vinson Cunningham: Yeah. Naomi Fry: And I think Cruise is very good in it. Alex Schwartz: Do we wanna just, like, spoil it? I think we have to spoil the premise of it, yes. Naomi Fry: Well, we can say there's major spoilers ahead, okay? So if you wanna see Digger- ... and not know twists and turns that are surprising- Vinson Cunningham: You might wanna skip ahead ... Naomi Fry: you might wanna skip Tyler Foggatt: ahead. Alex Schwartz: Mm-hmm. We don't have to spoil the very ending, for instance, but yeah. Yes. Tyler Foggatt: Yeah, so I mean as Vinson said, Cruise plays Digger Rockwell, an oil tycoon, um, who ignores all the warning signs that his rig in Greenland is going to, um, explode, killing a lot of people and also creating this massive ice shelf that then makes its way from Greenland to Europe. Um, and so we're watching this movie, and it's Tom Cruise's character dealing with the president and American politicians and the military, and they're trying to figure out what to do about this ice shelf. And then there's this moment pretty early on in the film where all of a sudden it becomes clear that this ridiculous satirical movie we're watching is actually, um, that the, the whole thing is actually just a play. And Tom Cruise's character, his real name is... Curtis Markson. Curtis Markson. Yeah, Nomi, the, the, one of the people in the room who actually liked the movie can remember that. Um, yeah, Cruise is actually playing Curtis Markson, who is embodying the character of Digger Rockwell on stage, and so this whole thing is a play. And we also see that, um, Cruise's character, Curtis, is kind of annoyed by this play and how it's written and feels like it's over the top and isn't realistic enough, um, which spoke to the way that I felt as I was watching the movie. And so there's this part early on where I'm kind of like, "Oh, thank goodness, they realize that this is bad," and the whole point is that it's bad. But the film and play unravel from there Alex Schwartz: Vincent, I'm gonna speak to the opposition, so I'd love to have you- Mm-hmm ... speak. I'd love to have you give the pro vote. Yeah. I, I knew you would love this. Yeah. I need to, but I need to know why. Vinson Cunningham: My experience watching the first, whatever it was, half hour or 45 minutes before the sort of main conceptual turn of the movie, my mind was kind of very unsettled. Like, there is a sort- certain, like, hokiness and sort of annoying gaudiness to the way the performances go in this movie that turns out to be a play. Digger Rockwell is kind of like a part Pat Buchanan, part George W. Bush. Mm-hmm. And he's like, you know, kind of a rootin' tootin' character who's like, you know, doing finger guns, and he's got on cowboy boots and a hat, and it's like c- clearly a kind of, um... You know, there's a, there's a meeting where the president comes to Digger's house, and he's surrounded by what seems to be a kind of war cabinet, but also some random preacher, and it's like, oh, there's this kind of like America-hating satire happening. John Goodman is playing the president, and he's doing... And everybody's got this like very high powder makeup that makes them all look sort of dead. And it's like this is a very heavy-handed satire of America and its place in the world that I, like, I wasn't all... I was like, "I don't know if this is good or not," but it, it seems it's so false that I was seeing the characters, like the, the actors and their performances, like behind their performances, like sort of struggling with, with the material. It was like, it was like watching a Brechtian thing where- Yes, yes ... you're kind of looking at performances, but also seeing their like high, high falsity in a certain way. And so there was like a real cathartic, like conceptual release for me when I realized that there, there was something happening in that. And then, but then we would, you know, go back into that, into the play/movie, which is kind of, I don't know, almost like surrealist in its relationship to the falsity, right? Like sometimes it looks like it's a movie. It like, the, the waves look like truly water, and then we pan back, and we see that it's some stage effect. So all of the sort of layers of performance, we're seeing Tom Cruise be this actor, be this character, all still while trying to create a kind of parable of climate change, America's place in the world, et cetera. Um, I just thought it was really smart and funny and, um, by the end, quite unsettling, and I thought-- I liked the sort of maximalism- Yeah of it, and I liked how lightly it wore reality, and I thought there were some great performances. You know, I thought Tom Cruise was great. I was into- I wanna see it again. I think I was like, "I don't know if I like this," and then I woke up thinking about it again, and I was like, "I guess I kinda really liked that." Naomi Fry: It didn't entirely work for me. There were some things, like I, I didn't know if I liked the fact of the backstory. I liked the fact of the removal from the play- Mm-hmm ... and, and kind of having those two parallel stories. I didn't know if the story that happened in the, quote-unquote, "real life" was worthy- Yeah uh, like was point-making enough for, for the conceptual conceit. But I, but I liked that it existed. I thought it was audacious, and I was like, "Okay." Yeah. "I mean, that, this is interesting." Cruise was very good Okay, and now the haters. Alex Schwartz: Well, Tyler, let's hear what you thought. I have, I have, I have a case for the opposition, but I'm really curious in the Tom Cruise sphere how you put this role. Tyler Foggatt: I guess I'm glad that he did it, even though I didn't like the film. I think, like Nomi and Vinson were saying, the movie is clearly a big swing- Mm-hmm ... and I think that for someone like Cruise, who has this very clear box office formula that he's perfected over the years, I mean, I often think about Cruise a little bit the way that I think about Taylor Swift, um, which is- Mm um, not just because I'm also very interested in Taylor Swift- ... but the two of them are friends, and they're kind of like these larger than life celebrities. They still are friends. They're friends in real life? They're friends, yeah. They're- What Naomi Fry: does friendship mean? Tyler Foggatt: There was footage recently of, um, the two of them talking at a Chief's game.[1] Uh, part of, um, Cruise's promotional tour for Digger involved going on Travis Kelce's podcast, New Heights, and talking about the film. Travis Naomi Fry: and Jason Kelce's. Tyler Foggatt: Yes, that's true. Jason Kelce is actually the more interesting Kelce- Put respect on his name ... but that's another episode. Um, but yeah. So I, I think, um, it's, they're sort of in a similar tier, I would say- Mm-hmm where it's like they, they have this formula. It generally does pretty well. They both get a lot of shit for, like, not experimenting more, especially since their experiments have sometimes gone really well. So, like, with Taylor Swift, it's like the indie albums, Folklore and Evermore, which are often thought to be, like, her actual best albums. And I think Cruise, it's a little bit similar where it's like, yeah, we know you can make like a really good Mission Impossible movie or a really good action film, but like, what about this dramatic stuff? Like, don't you still want an Oscar maybe? Um, and so I'm glad that he did it just because it's proof that he can be in a movie like this and give, um, a pretty spectacular performance. But I just think that, um, I, I didn't really buy, like, the world building that was happening. I think that, like, again, if part of the reason why I like Cruise so much as an actor is that he's funny, I thought it was notable that, like, no one at our screening was really laughing. Like, you have this- Mm really, like, heightened satire of American politics and sort of, like, stances toward climate change and, like, I never thought that any of it was funny. It was mostly just, like, them making jokes about how John Goodman, who plays the president, has, um, ass cancer- Mm ... and it's like, I think you can maybe get, like, you can do that joke once, but doing it like 20 times- Yeah I'm not sure. Um, so yeah, I felt like it was just, um, it was too bad 'cause it's clear that Cruise is trying to do something cool and grand, but I felt like the movie itself was just, like- Kind of bad and poorly constructed. Alex Schwartz: Okay, I think we're aligned. I think Tom Cruise gives an excellent performance in this movie. Mm-hmm. And it's a bravura performance. It is a very physical performance, in part because he has physically transformed into this pasty, overweight, elderly, sagging fleshed character. Great performance. Bad, bad movie, and I'm angry at the movie for being bad because I agree with you guys that it has a lot of audacious elements, and it, it, it sh- it took a big swing, but I think it really, really fails. And I think one reason it really fails is, um, because it simply is not satirizing something that hasn't been satirized a million times before, and it doesn't understand or care enough about the state of present American reality to give us a satire that actually would hurt us. Mm-hmm. What we get are a bunch of neocons from the George W. Bush era, including John Goodman's also very good, totally over the top Texan Bible-thumping George W. Bush impersonation. Mm-hmm. It's as if George W. Bush became president at the age that Trump is, essentially. Um, but there's nothing that has to do with the past 10 years of where America actually is or the severity of the situation or the particularities of our situation. Vinson Cunningham: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Alex Schwartz: And that made me mad because I actually think Tom Cruise should be commended for going out on a limb and doing this role. Vinson Cunningham: Yeah. Alex Schwartz: I think it's cool he did it. Vinson Cunningham: It is cool. But we've talked about, I think we are unanimous on the, on the fact that Cruise is pretty good- Yeah ... in this role, and I wonder, Tyler, whether that, um- Uh, speaks to a kind of future Cruise bucket. Like, you know, does, does, do we see him continue in this vein a little bit, or is this a momentary release from the, from the dominance of the, the stunt-based action? Do you think that this foretells something Cruise-ologically? Tyler Foggatt: Yeah, I mean there's a chance that we continue to get a few more experiments, um, like here and there, but I do think that, like Taylor Swift, Cruise will probably at the end of j- uh, end of the day default back to the formula that he knows works. Mm-hmm. And so it's not surprising to me that, like, Tom Cruise was working on Diggers s- at the same time that he was working on a sequel to Days of Thunder. Um, and there was this movie that he was supposed to be shooting in space, which I think actually got axed because Trump needed, um... or because Cruise needed to get permission or help from Trump to get, like, NASA's cooperation, and Cruise did not, reportedly did not want to, like, need a favor from Donald Trump.[2] Okay. And so he decided just to, like, kill the film. Um- Okay, Alex Schwartz: Tom Cruise. Tyler Foggatt: Yeah, no, he's- We're listening. He also said no to, like, a Kennedy Center award. [3]Like, there's some interesting- Oh ... things about his politics that I would, like, be curious to know more about, especially in this movie, which is so, you know, so much about, like, climate change, and I feel like he, um, he definitely appeals to red America, and yet there are these signals, whether it's, like, him yelling at people for not following COVID regulations- Yeah. Mm ... um, or, um, yeah, just being in this movie where you're kind of like, "Oh, maybe he's, maybe he's a, a lib." It's hard to know. But- ... um, I, I think there's also, like, a third Top Gun that's coming out. Wow. So we're gonna continue to get the action stuff. Um, but maybe we'll get a couple Diggers in between now and then, too. Vinson Cunningham: Tyler. Tyler Foggatt: Yeah. Vinson Cunningham: This has been the best. Tyler Foggatt: Thank you guys so much. Thank you so much for coming. This was a lot of fun. Thank you, Tyler. Vinson Cunningham: After the break, does Hollywood make stars like Tom Cruise anymore? Critics at Large from The New Yorker will be right back :: MIDROLL:: Okay, so we, we talked about the many aspects and phases of the, the Cruise-iverse. We talked about Digger. Uh, but I wanna re- retur[d][e]n to something that we kinda talked about at the very beginning of the episode, which is, uh, Cruise's status perhaps as maybe the last of a, a certain kind of breed. Like, the, the movie star who drives box office and sort of, uh, guarantees a certain amount of attention to a movie. I could name some other, maybe like, maybe Denzel Washington is still here. Nicole Kidman probably still has some of this. We could- Brad Naomi Fry: Pitt. Vinson Cunningham: Brad Pitt, yeah. Naomi Fry: DiCaprio. Vinson Cunningham: Yeah. We could name some others, but- Yeah ... certainly if he's not the last, he's one of the last, is Cruise. Naomi Fry: Mm-hmm. Vinson Cunningham: Um, sitting there watching Digger, did you have thoughts about this- Naomi Fry: I- Vinson Cunningham: aspect of Cruise's maybe, like, sort of role in our public life? Naomi Fry: I did have thoughts about it. It seemed to me, looking at Cruise playing, at least in this play, you know, this like, obviously enormously wealthy, enormously powerful individual, but kind of like a grotesque, misshapen, dying animal- Vinson Cunningham: Yeah ... Naomi Fry: made me think that whether intentionally or not, this was also a comment on like, look at our beautiful, this beautiful man, you know? Who has been a symbol of American robustness- ... for a large part of his career. Yeah. It made me think also, among other things, about this particular aspect of it, kind of like m- the movie star at sunset, you know? Yeah, yeah. Cruise's Sunset Boulevard, you know? It's, it's not- The lion in Vinson Cunningham: winter, yeah ... Naomi Fry: it's the, the lion in winter, you know? It's, it's the pictures that got small- Mm ... kind of. Yeah. You know? And, uh, I do think there is something to that when we're thinking- Yeah ... obviously we, and we've spoken about this- On the pod in the past, you know, streaming versus cinema. Um, um, uh, you know, the Marvel verse and the kind of like the, the proliferation of IP properties rather than original work. Uh, so many, so many things- Yeah ... um, that indicate that we are no longer in this like, you know, capital H Hollywood of yore that, that creates these like enormous mega stars who- Yeah ... can open a movie. I mean, obviously it still happens, but you know, it's... it always feels like, "He's saving movies," when it does happen. It's like, "Oh my God, Oppenheim and, and Barbie. Oh my God, you know, v- uh, Top Gun: Maverick." Cinemas and big movies. Yeah. "We're saved." You know, it's always from the brink of disaster, somehow we're snatched back, but that obviously bespeaks a, a crisis. Vinson Cunningham: Yeah. It's, it, it reminds me, Alex, of sort of our, uh, our disquisition way back about whether there ever was such a thing as the monoculture. It does seem like the f- the, the Hollywood star, the, the, um, the movie star is a kind of like, you know, whether or not it existed in the way we remember it and it, or it, it meant, you know, everything that we wanted it to mean. Certainly this point about crisis, like nobody I take... It's like something has changed structurally. You know, there is a, just a, um... And maybe this is just, you know, us growing old as well, you know? Um- No. Yeah. It just seems like, you know- Not Naomi Fry: that ... Vinson Cunningham: um, there is some sort of halcyon era. You mentioned, you know, Jerry Maguire being the kind of movie that doesn't get made anymore, and concurrent with that kind of movie was a kind of figure who kinda had to fill it in. Um, it does make me feel a little bit nostalgic There are great young actors, and I think with the one ex- exemption, w- which is Zendaya, there's something different afoot. But do you, do you agree? Alex Schwartz: Yeah, I guess you're talking about the difference between the A-list and a movie star. Vinson Cunningham: Mm-hmm. Alex Schwartz: I, I have mixed feelings about this question. Uh, is Tom Cruise the last movie star? No. Is he the last movie star of his kind? Maybe, but he's also the only movie star of his kind. Mm-hmm. Like, it, I think specifically for those reasons we've been discussing, he is, he, he, this, um, making his name synonymous with an action franchise and doing things that are truly singular without a stunt double that only he can do, no one else has done that particular thing. So there is no other Tom Cruise equivalent. People, when they talk about the death of the movie star, often like to point fingers, totally fairly, on, at the Marvel era. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and the idea that IP overtook personality and charisma- Mm-hmm ... as the star of the movie. You could get a, a Spider-Man with, um, Tobey Maguire, and then you could get another one with Tom Holland, another one with whoever was in between those, because I'm forgetting all the Spider-Men. and I think the real question is why do we feel such anxiety around the idea that the Cruise star is dying? I think when we go to see Tom Cruise movie, we're expecting a certain kind of pleasure and satisfaction, which is another reason that Digger is a weird entry in the Tom Cruise canon. The reason I said that I don't think a Jerry Maguire exists anymore- Mm-hmm ... and it should exist, but that kind of heightened realist r- romantic comedy, also drama, that requires a director and a writer to really bring together a lot of different tonal elements- Mm-hmm and create lovability but also friction. Tyler Foggatt: Mm-hmm. Alex Schwartz: People seem interested, I think, more these days when I'm talking about it like a, a big mid-budget movie, which of course a category that no longer really exists, but in chopping off a piece of genre and putting it out there, and then- Having smaller movies- Mm-hmm take on the kind of emotional work that- Yeah ... like a big, Jerry Maguire was a big emotional catharsis kind of movie- Mm-hmm Yeah ... that you could see in a movie theater. It's, it reminds me of Mr. Holland's Opus, another like- ... funny only '90s movie. Wow. You know what I mean? Richard Dreyfuss. Yeah, just like there are laughs, there are tears, there's deafness, there's music. It's, it has it all. Um- Naomi Fry: Dead Poet's Society. I didn't know. Alex Schwartz: Exactly. Yeah. The heart on the sleeve- Naomi Fry: Yes ... Alex Schwartz: kind of movie. So we have come through this era where the franchise has overshadowed the star, and we're sort of still in that era, but we're also groping maybe towards something new. And Nomi, you're talking about the anxiety that, uh, that is constant in Hollywood about what the future of the movies holds. We've been in a very interesting year. We had our episode recently about Gen Z horror. We've been in a year- Mm-hmm ... where small budget movies by Gen Z directors have crushed at the box office- Yeah ... which points a way forward for a different kind of Hollywood and a different kind of cinematic draw. I think people need to stop being cynical about the survival of the movies and start actually investing in making the kind of movies that- Vinson Cunningham: Right, what do Alex Schwartz: we want to see? people wanna see. Yeah. Yeah. Which perhaps is an obvious answer, and obviously easier set, said than done. Naomi Fry: Definitely easier said than done, but yes. Alex Schwartz: Definitely easier said than done, but it's, the, you know, I'm, I have mixed feelings about Robert Pattinson. I just keep thinking of him as analogous movie star now. You guys have both seen, um, his- Prime Time ... Prime Time. Prime Time. And I haven't seen it yet, but yeah, he's, he's ta- you know, he's having quite a year. Naomi Fry: Yeah. But it's not gonna- And Prime Time opened very big for a relatively low budget movie. Yeah. And, uh, and the drama was big for him. I mean big in general. Mm-hmm. But, but you know. Right, right, right. And yeah. But Alex Schwartz: he's, he's not a lovable, he doesn't play lovable types. He's, he's- No. Naomi Fry: No, he's also not American. He's good Vinson Cunningham: at being weird and angular and- Alex Schwartz: Oh, is that a requirement for you? Naomi Fry: No, but I just mean- You're talking about like Alex Schwartz: the American Naomi Fry: style of movies. I'm talking about- Yeah. Yeah, yeah ... the lovabi- you know, the, the Cruise-ian- Mm ... American lovability. Alex Schwartz: Mm-hmm. Vinson Cunningham: The, Naomi Fry: the- He's- ... the Labrador Vinson Cunningham: retriever Naomi Fry: of, yeah, he's not. Yeah. He is not, m- m- Pattinson is Alex Schwartz: not that. Right. That's true. I mean, Glen Powell was brought up as the kind of Labrador retriever who wants to be a Labrador retriever. Mm-hmm. There was a whole press cycle around him a few years ago wanting to be a movie star and trying so hard to be a movie star, and I think the try-hardness of it all made it, um, a bit- Yeah ... difficult for him. I'm, he's, he's done well in the movies, and his movies have done well, but there was a sense that he wanted to put himself forward as that guy, as that guy- I wanna be the guy, Vinson Cunningham: yeah Alex Schwartz: which is antithetical to some of the charisma you need. Vinson Cunningham: Right. Yeah. I finally did see Twisters, and I will say- Ooh ... he puts in a, a, a, talking about like sort of lovability, he does put forward a kind of- lovedly American rugged masculine performance that I was Naomi Fry: like, " Vinson Cunningham: All Naomi Fry: right, I get it." I think he's gonna be okay. He's gonna be okay. Alex Schwartz: He's gonna be okay. I'm more worried about us than I'm worried about him. Fair enough. Like, he's doing fine. He's fine, yeah. You know, but who, who can we the people look to? Who, who do we Naomi Fry: want? Yeah. Doesn't he have, like, a very successful hot sauce brand? Alex Schwartz: I think, yeah, we're, we're, I think we're looking for, we're looking for American avatars, I guess, right? For the- Yes ... like, the George Clooney figure. Mm-hmm. The Matt Damon figure. The, there's the all-American quality with a specificity. Mm-hmm. Denzel fits it, too. Um, can be rugged, can be hard, can be funny. Vinson Cunningham: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's Alex Schwartz: like- We're still looking around in the newer generations maybe. Vinson Cunningham: Yeah, it's, you know, it is, it is notable that those, a lot of the Gen Z horror that we talked about works without having famous actors in them. That's not sort of the point. Mm-hmm. And maybe some of them will turn- Mm-hmm ... will turn into that in the future. Only time can tell. But it does seem like maybe whatever the mu- movies are now, outside of the sort of great big franchise and IP world, might be something more focused on ensembles. Naomi Fry: Mm-hmm. Vinson Cunningham: I think just when we, when we, what's the fear? When we don't have these great big towering, you know, uh, success guaranteeing figures, maybe we just sort of, like, want a handhold, you know? Well, Naomi Fry: I definitely want a handhold. Vinson Cunningham: Yeah. Alex Schwartz: I mean, speaking of handholding, do you guys know that after the first Dune, Tom Cruise sent Timothee Chalamet an email offering him a list of stunt guys, motorcycle guys, helicopter trainers, all these people who could turn him into an action star? Like, Tom Cruise is invested in- Whoa ... the question of the age. Did Chalamet Vinson Cunningham: take him up on the offer? Alex Schwartz: I don't know. Vinson Cunningham: Wow. Alex Schwartz: I don't know. But- I'd love Vinson Cunningham: to ... Alex Schwartz: talk about the opposite of gatekeeping. Vinson Cunningham: There you go. Alex Schwartz: Tom Cruise doesn't wanna be the last. Naomi Fry: Generous. Generous. Generous He wants to make sure. Right. He's created a prototype, and he wants to find someone to follow in his footsteps. Naomi Fry: It's all about mentorship. Yeah. Much like, you know, the Alex Schwartz: young Cruise. His early movies, yes. Naomi Fry: His early movies, yeah. This has been Critics at Large. Rhiannon Corby is our senior producer. Our executive producer is Steven Valentino. Our, our show is mixed by Mike Kutchman, and we had engineering help today from Pram Bandi, with music by Alexis Cuadrado. Next week, listen for our episode on The Social Reckoning, Aaron Sorkin's follow-up to The Social Network 16 years later. And as always, you can find all of our episodes at newyorker.com/critics.